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This week’s Udder Side flavor of the week was “Red Indian”, causing con­tro­versy sur­rounding the name. Breana Noble | Courtesy

 

The flavor of the week at the Udder Side is swirling up con­tro­versy, as some local res­i­dents com­plain the name of the “Red Indian” soft serve is racially insen­sitive.

The cin­namon-fla­vored ice cream with a pinkish hue is being offered exclu­sively Sunday through Sat­urday as a part of the Jonesville ice cream shop’s weekly pro­motion. Joining a national dis­cussion over the appro­pri­ation of Native American culture, some local res­i­dents have com­plained the flavor’s name is dis­paraging. Mean­while, others have gone out of their way to support the Udder Side and grab a small serving for $1.59.

“We’re selling the [heck] out of it,” said Julia Bauer, who owns the Udder Side with her husband, Dave. “It’s been more popular than ever. We were busier than normal on Mondays when it was freezing cold outside.”

Others, however, are not so eager to buy the flavor. Hillsdale res­ident Natasha Crall, who said she has Cherokee her­itage, com­mented on the Udder Side’s Facebook post announcing the flavor of the week and shared the post in the group Hillsdale’s Hot Debates on Sunday. Crall said the flavor was in bad taste, given that Hillsdale County used to be inhabited by the Potawatomi tribe before set­tlers began coming in 1827.

She added that her family loves the Udder Side and sug­gested it sell the ice cream flavor under a dif­ferent name.

“The National Coalition for American Indians has said that the term red skin is inap­pro­priate,” Crall told The Col­legian. “Red Indian: It refers to red skin. It’s bigoted and offensive.”

More than 300 people replied to Crall’s comment in Hot Debates before the group’s admin­is­trator turned off com­menting on the post. Most people said they did not find the name offensive or ridiculed Crall’s ques­tioning of it in the first place.

“Just because it doesn’t hurt them, doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt other people,” Crall said. “That wouldn’t fly in other places outside of the Hillsdale bubble.”

Bauer said the Udder Side did not come up with the name Red Indian, and it is not the only shop to sell the flavor in Hillsdale County. Bobbeye’s Pizza Place & Dairyland in Hudson also sells the ice cream flavor under that name. The business did not respond to request for comment.

It is the name its maker, National Products, used for the flavor 27 years ago when the Udder Side began selling it. There is no ice cream company with that name now, but Kala­mazoo-based National Flavors used to be called National Products before changings its name 10 years ago, according to Najee Lazarus, a cus­tomer service rep­re­sen­tative for the company. National Flavors does sell a cin­namon spice flavor, but Lazarus was unable to say on Wednesday if it had been called Red Indian pre­vi­ously.

Dave Bauer would not confirm the name of the company that sup­plies the ice cream flavor, adding that for as long as he owns the Udder Side, Red Indian will be the flavor’s name.

Julie Bauer agreed: “We could change it, but it’s the name we’ve been selling it as for 30 years. It’d just be the flavor that used to be known as Red Indian.”

As a graduate of Central Michigan Uni­versity, whose mascot is the Chippewas, Julie Bauer said she is familiar with the con­tro­versy. She said, however, she thinks the con­tro­versy of the ice cream’s name is ridiculous.

“I shake my head; I have nothing to say,” she said. “I have never seen any­thing like that as putting someone down. It’s what it’s called. It’s a flavor of ice cream.”

Many people agreed with her. Bauer said one cus­tomer earlier this week paid $20 in advance for the next cus­tomers who pur­chased the Red Indian ice cream.

Osseo res­ident Tracy O’Haver visited the Udder Side on Sunday and ordered the flavor after seeing the posts about it on Facebook. She posted that she ordered a Red Indian cone fol­lowing the com­plaints made.

“It’s just ice cream,” O’Haver said. “I think it’s ridiculous, all the words we have to change. All of our lives we’ve used it. Why does it have to change now?”

Either way, Bauer said the debate over the flavor has turned into free adver­tising for the local dairy shop.

“It’s what the company orig­i­nally called it,” Bauer said. “If you don’t like it, don’t eat it.”

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Breana Noble
Breana Noble is The Collegian's Editor-in-Chief. She is a born and raised Michigander and studies politics and journalism. This summer, Breana interned in New York City at TheStreet, a business and finance news website. She has previously worked for The Detroit News, The American Spectator, and Newsmax Media. She eventually hopes to pursue a career in investigative journalism. email: bnoble1@hillsdale.edu | twitter: @RightandNoble
  • Ellsworth_Toohey

    Good story Brena, and having watched the mob men­tality grow on that FB thread, it’s given me an insight into the less com­pli­mentary side of “It’s the people”. The com­munity needs more people like Natasha Crall, who are not afraid to stand against the col­lective mindset. Also good research into the dis­tributor, those where my findings also, the name being common 40 years ago, with no dis­trib­utors now selling it under that name, and just a few ice cream stores across the country relabing it under that name.

    BTW, Bauer is incorrect about her claim Bobbeye’s Pizza Place & Dairyland is in Hillsdale County, they are in Lenawee county. Inter­esting they wouldn’t confirm her claim.

    I can only imagine if 40 years ago, the Flavor of the Week was “Picaninny Freeze” and someone objected to that. It was an actual ice cream flavor. That’s the thing… those who are doing some­thing racially insen­sitive aren’t in a position to judge if it is.… only those who are the target of it.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2c5bb5d85b6aca30e9119e5efdabde8ec71ef40d43a2688b0fd2339e52703607.jpg

    • Travis George

      I love to racism, bro. 😂

      • Travis George

        How do you put 1000 jews inside of a car???
        Ash tray

        • Ellsworth_Toohey

          Naw.… just doesn’t grab me as the next flavor of the week. One doesn’t picture “ashes” as that fla­vorful and they bind up the soft serve machine.. how about a novelty? Kike Krunch? That should bring in some business.

          And don’t forget the Amish… that’s another group Hills­dalealiens love to hate on. I’ve heard local con­tractors call them Hillsdale’s Nigxxr;s but that’s just not that cre­ative. Help me out here…

      • Ellsworth_Toohey

        I know you do.… it was a travesty that such a fine example of the com­munity was banned from Hillsdale Hot Debates.

  • Ellsworth_Toohey

    —“Kala­mazoo-based National Flavors used to be called National Products before changings its name 10 years ago, according to Najee Lazarus, a cus­tomer service rep­re­sen­tative for the company.”

    Ummmm.…. according to archive.org, a web archiving site, in November 2001, they had no “Red Indian” ice cream flavor, but did have a “Red Hot Cin­namon” flavor. So that means they changed it at least 16+ years ago, not 10 years ago as Lazarus claimed.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20011116140431/http://www.nationalflavors.com:80/flavors.html

  • Chris Revers

    My turds are rasicts never had white turds why can’t I have a white poop?

  • Jedediah Boudreaux

    The people in my hometown never com­plained when Luanne and I started selling our award-winning Negro Lin­guini.

  • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

    I think it’s dis­gusting to sell liq­uefied frozen native Amer­icans, there’s a better ice cream store across from the fair­grounds in Hillsdale anyway. I used to love the Udder Side, but appar­ently didn’t realize what nasty people run it, too bad they think being jerks is the way to handle a business —  it’s not like gays came in and asked for a cake for their wedding! I won’t support a business that isn’t responsive and sen­sitive to their cus­tomers. Thank you Col­legian, I’m SO GLAD to know not to spend money on these people. Not about the ice cream AT ALL. About their ATTITUDES.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/074c69a2beb354a1c0c4ac63ca56d570390c7fe62d7798f5ffddb1a5ce8452a0.png

    • Ellsworth_Toohey

      Not the first time this has happened.…apparently the human genome make’s for some tasty ice cream This pro­tester was was dragged away last year after protesting one of the flavor’s of the week and being beaten by happy Utter Slide cus­tomers.

      https://youtu.be/6zAFA-hamZ0.

      • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

        LOL!!!!!!!! Are you on “Hillsdale Hottest Debates”, the group that just started up as the Alt-Hillsdale Hot Debates? https://www.facebook.com/groups/212268216189378/

        • Ellsworth_Toohey

          Me? No, I just mostly hang out here, but it’s nice to see some of the local “Color” popping into this dis­cussion. It keeps me grounded.

          • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

            All us HHD exiles come here to be con­verted into respectable people worthy of being thrown in the lion’s den again! LOL Con­sider it! Hillsdale’s Hottest Debates is new, it’ll be more fun than the group that got way too big and out of control and lost all the cool people.

          • Penny Swan

            Well Jeff king you most cer­tainly are on Natasha’s and Adams Page/ LivingInHellsdaleCounty’s page it is very easy to go in and look at the mem­bership so once again lying. All of this drama and lying over a flipping cin­namon ice cream name that has absolutely nothing to do with American Indians so happy I have seen people’s TRUE (colors) as I know you both are with me. At least I have the guts to use my true name and not the (Sock Puppets) ://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d49a31cb5307c450e5bc4321c4d5f5b0bac837fb861622d1c0410e6f1877de38.png

          • Penny Swan

            And I am sure I can find our con­ver­sation where you told me this is your alias on here is you decide to deny that this is you.

  • Living­In­Hells­dale­County
  • Robert McFate

    The name has been around for decades. To many whiners in the present. Guess she got the attention she wanted!

    • B.mer

      Doesn’t matter if its defaming her her­itage then? SMH

      • Robert McFate

        Okay. Than why is it okay for the Lib­turds to defame the white with their “White Priv­ilege” nar­rative? You can not have it both ways! There are many Member the the Indian Nation that think the whole thing is ridiculous because it does nothing to help them.

        • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

          Yep, I agree, I think that bashing whites is equally dis­gusting, equally as offensive to civil rights of that race of Amer­icans.

        • Ellsworth_Toohey

          one does not beget the other.

          Please talk to Mr. Revers further down the thread about ‘lib­turds” in par­ticular if your’s are white. He had expressed interest 2 days ago.

        • B.mer

          When they name their vanilla  — white people — hit me up and Ill protest by your side, brother.

      • Annette Reiniche Barnett

        She is probably as much of an American Indian as Eliz­abeth Warren is. Hahahaa!

        • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

          I’m not Native American and I still can see clearly that the owner of that business could have changed the name of that ice cream gra­ciously so as not to offend a sector of his cus­tomers and instead, he was rude, dis­missive and showed igno­rance about a subject that is important to some. But here’s a screenshot that a Jonesville High School student sent to me, off the hate page that Penny Swan started to rally the com­munity to attack Natasha Crall. It’s too bad, Ms, Barnett, that you seem to think that attacking Natasha is legal. She’s a private citizen, your friend Penny who is sending you and even TEENAGERS after Ms. Crall is really sick minded to not realize her actions against a private citizen, as a politician or a human being, are wrong. Penny has degraded HERSELF, shame­lessly, sending high school stu­dents after people they don’t even know to attack strangers viciously, claiming I am Natasha and adults from Penny’s hate page wrote filthy threat­ening things. It’s a real shame you don’t ask your friend why this crusade is so important to her. It sure isn’t about ice cream, and it doesn’t seem to be about race. It seems to be an obsession with Natasha Crall and I hope Natasha presses charges.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f4a74fa6df5c8a3e266ba70d152484861d19683cfc73f7976d2661ff589f7803.png

        • Brave Crow

          I’m enrolled on Standing Rock. Racist cow.

    • Sandrea Jeane

      “The name’s been around for decades”… So has the KKK. O, I realize the KKKlan’s not about rebranding, but an Ice Cream? All they need do is change the name change it BACK to what it was, “Red Hot”, simple. Easy! As for “Lib­turds”, many of whom are white, if you don’t under­stand “White Priv­ilege” — aww, us po whites! We’re SO OPRESSED! — maybe you need to study up on a little thing called history, “Man­ifest Destiny”, “Trail of tears”, “Dakota 38”, “Bury my Heart @ Wounded Knee”. Of course, some Natives may not care. But talk to others. There are Native activists, just as there are activists of ALL colors. As for “whining”, a lot of whining from those saying “PC Culture” is “the ruination of ‘Merica…”

  • Sandy Daze

    I like the Udderside; I like ALL of their ice cream.

    But I like the lemon soft-serve the best !

    BTW — for those who do not know, lemon is the flavor for the first full cal­endar week of every month, meaning that my Easter cel­e­bration will include an Udderside Lemon.

    Mmm-mmmm-great !

    • Brave Crow

      Will there be a cru­ci­fixion creme for Easter?

  • hereinWA

    I’m guessing all the ass­holes com­menting ‘no big deal’ aren’t Native, or, will claim their great great grandma was a Cherokee Princess, therefore their opinion carries great weight.

  • B.mer

    Proud of my her­itage as a native American and pretty dis­gusted with the callous response of the unpro­fes­sional business owner’s response to the con­tro­versy. Nothing like treating the kiddies to hate on a cone, right? The free adver­tising comes with a price to their rep­u­tation, hateful people only buy one cone and move on to some­thing else to hate, but the news cov­erage to come from this may change their minds, the American Council of Native Amer­icans and other advocacy groups have been con­tacted, and so will the Michigan Office of Civil Rights, who sue for such tar­geted degra­dation based on a pro­tected class (like race) in any pub­licly acces­sible business and I’m sure the several cones they sold won’t make up for the fines they’ll be paying for this insult to indigenous persons. It isn’t that they had that name on it for years, it’s how they acted once their attention was called to it, enjoying the hate it brought and the money they made off that hate.

  • It takes a special kind of racist to con­tinue to use a racist slur as a product name, after being told that it’s a racist slur. If you’re not Native American, you don’t get to say “It’s only ice cream” or “Don’t buy it” or “It’s not offensive.” If someone tells you that the name demeans their eth­nicity, you don’t get to tell them that it doesn’t.

  • Reb Garland

    I wish I could say I am sur­prised by the use of this racist name and the racist com­ments I have read. Sadly, in this com­munity I grew up close to, I’m not. Whether you feel it’s racist or hurtful isn’t the point. It is how the com­munity it is directed towards feels. And for someone who claims to have gone to CMU, where the Uni­versity has a close rela­tionship with the Tribe, it is espe­cially trou­bling. But then, you just can’t “fix” racism when it chooses to not be fixed.

  • Cathye Williams

    Really amazed at the dou­bling down by the owners who insist on using a racist slur as the ice cream name, after being told that it’s a racist slur. You don’t get to tell someone whose people have been oppressed for cen­turies, whose culture has been demeaned and appro­priated that some­thing isn’t offensive, when they tell you it is. The way they’re bragging about their sales seems like flaunting some kind of pride in how racist their com­munity is.It’s also been pointed out that you’re blocking some people who are protesting this name, but not those using pro­fanity and further racial slurs. Way to be bal­anced. Happy that I live nowhere near this place and have no desire to visit. More power to those bravely staying there and working for change, and to open minds and hearts.

  • Charles Petoskey

    Well, then he should come up with a “Geno­cidal Whites” vanilla ice cream.

    • Penny Swan

      It’s getting that bad UGH. The sad thing is the name has nothing to do with American Indian

      • Knight Chade

        what does it matter if it’s referred to american indian or not? if it’s still referring to eastern indians, IT’S STILL WRONG, you twit.

        • Penny Swan

          Well done sir,calling me a name on a story about name calling. Touché

          And the name is referring to the Indian Ocean NOT the indigenous people!

          • Knight Chade

            hmmm…where’d did the indian ocean get it’s name? um, could it be from the country of india and the peoples that live there? nah, that doesn’t sound right. they named the country after the ocean. what was i thinking? as for the name calling, i used an ubiq­uitous label in regards to your intel­li­gence, not a racial pejo­rative.

          • Penny Swan

            Well aren’t you the smart one Hummmmm

          • Brave Crow

            Lol. Smarter than you it seems.

          • Natasha Crall

            This is her MO. It always has been. When refuted in a debate, she insults or demands to “agree to dis­agree” then gets angry and runs away when others con­tinue to best her. Her frus­tration tol­erance level is far too low for pol­itics. She actually CALLS herself an activist…can you believe that? An activist who tries to silence the media from cov­ering issues of racism.

          • Brave Crow

            Yikes. Someone mis­spelled “white supremacist” because red Indians don’t matter to her.

          • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

            See how this POLITICIAN Penny Swan insults your intel­li­gence even though she’s been ral­lying the area to go after ONE WOMAN that she’s so viciously jealous of that she can’t stand it? She blamed Natasha for the efforts of a boycott and a protest, which Natasha knew NOTHING about and are being planned by private cit­izens who are con­tacting out of town groups who support Native Amer­icans who are dis­paraged by products, schools and teams and it’s been reported to the Michigan Office of Civil Rights for their inves­ti­gation of public accom­mo­da­tions being racist. She thinks its a political thing, and its not, it’s a CIVIL RIGHTS “thing” and as a city of Hillsdale employee, there’s an effort to petition the mayor for her to be removed from her appointment to a city operated board, and if she keeps up her con­tinual PERSONAL harassment of Ms. Crall, I hope Natasha files a police report for being cyber bullied on hate pages as a private citizen by a public employee, which is illegal under MCL 750.411s and is a felony in the state of Michigan.

          • Brave Crow

            Awkward when Crayola dis­con­tinues “Indian red” as a crayon color in like 1990 because its in poor taste but you still pretend that saying “red indian” is okay because the context is “dif­ferent”. No matter the context “Indian red” and “red indian” evokes spe­cific geno­cidal and his­torical trauma for indigenous people on turtle island. This is well known given Crayola aban­donment of this lan­guage.

            What’s dis­turbing that instead of lis­tening to the trauma of the people whose land you ille­gally occupy you decide to make a Facebook group cham­pi­oning this ice cream flavor that many find upsetting and harass people online for what reason?

            It’s just ice cream. Change the name so you don’t upset people. Humility is that easy.

        • Brave Crow

          Exactly. Let’s just not name food after living cul­tures. It’s not “respectful”.

      • Charles Petoskey

        Well, white­s­plain to me then how this isn’t racist against Native Amer­icans or India?

        • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

          Don’t listen to her, she’s a politician, a CITY OF HILLSDALE EMPLOYEE and a failed city council can­didate who is bitter about that loss and grasps to any­thing she can to get attention to feed her political aspi­ra­tions. She rallied people on a forum to go after ONE WOMAN because she’s jealous of her and how she stands up for the little guy no matter what. She also got kicked out of the Hillsdale 6, the famed group of activists that do so much for the rights of the public around here because she is just a bitter person who blames us all for her losing the City council election.

          • Brave Crow

            Yeah she lost her bid in pol­itics for a reason and now she started a FB page in support of racist ice cream and is keeping tabs on indigenous com­menters she be out there harassing people https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/40e132825f2c6fee0a9fcb5c871bf8198bec41f3f5306ca90198affe30f5ee1e.png

          • Natasha Crall

            Yes, it’s true. After Penny Swan directly harassed me, we will not allow her in our dis­cussion group. Her attempt to lit­erally rally other people against me in a closed group is bizzare, and her lies and accu­sa­tions that I am plotting to picket and that I am respon­sible for other people’s social media pages are utterly false. She went so far as to com­plain on her Penny Swan activist page that we did not attend the college hosted opiate dis­cussion as though it somehow negates the racist ice cream issue. Her audacity is unbe­lievable. All I have done is stand my ground. It isn’t MY doing that the media has taken interest. I was unaware of the Vice article until it was pub­lished. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/272d8f1d006239d0f7402906da45983f7405d858a3bdaa011a9966f46ef6a81f.png

          • Brave Crow

            Yeah. I heard about this through native Facebook. We can get angry on our own. It’s awkward that Penny’s white supremacy is blaming you when we have the autonomy and sov­er­eignty to be upset on our own. #NODAPL

          • Annette Reiniche Barnett

            Are you people for real? Penny Swan has more integrity than all of you! She has worked tire­lessly to keep the cit­izens of Hillsdale informed and up to date on the political workings of our local gov­ernment. She attends every council meeting, and is never afraid to speak out against any irreg­u­lar­ities that could affect us. Penny Swan was very gra­cious in her narrow loss and con­tinues to devote her time for the bet­terment of this com­munity. You people should be ashamed!

          • Brave Crow

            Really bc it sounds like she’s a loser who has a history of harassment.

        • Ellsworth_Toohey

          Well Charles Looks like you scared this one away.

  • Sandrea Jeane

    What’s up, Udder Side? How udderly despi­cable… “It’s just Ice Cream…” So why not change its name? Just call it “Red Hot”, as it once was? “It’s been called that for Years…” “I’m buying it BECAUSE it’s a ‘provacative’ name”? So when is National Flavors coming out w/ “Coon Melon”, or “Honky Honey”? How bout “Illegall Immi­grant Ice”? Or “Camel-Jockey Caramel”? How ’bout a nice in creamy “Jew­sicle”? Just stop… :-/

    • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

      Well said.

  • Holly T. Bird

    It’s ter­rible and racist name. We Natives are speaking out because we are tired of it. Would it be ok for it to be called “White Colonist” or “Black African” flavor — no. People are saying it’s ok because it’s been that way for a long time. It’s per­pet­u­ating insti­tu­tional racism and needs to stop. My kids see these kinds of things and think that ice cream busi­nesses hate them.…ICE CREAM. Think about it. Isn’t an ice cream store sup­posed to be wel­coming children? How insidious is it for a child to have to see this racist “flavor” being used? What if you walked into a pre­dom­i­nantly Muslim city and the ice cream store where you took your kids had “White Infidel Christian” flavor instead of vanilla and the people there were jumping up and down to eat it? Would you feel safe taking your white Christian kid there? (Dis­claimer — no I do not feel that Muslims would ever do this.) My children’s jaws would lit­erally drop at seeing a flavor like this — even the youngest said “why would I eat me even though I’m tan and not red?” The oldest kids are well aware of it’s con­nection to the “Red­skins” ter­mi­nology and what that means. It’s dis­gusting.

  • Margo Lodge-Seven Oakes

    Racist garbage and where are people’s heads these days!

    • Tahesha Knapp Chris­tensen

      Red Indian flavor must taste salty and sour like the racism is reflects. I know I will probably be blocked for com­menting but maybe your next flavor should be White snowflake since you are so sen­sitive to being called out on your bla­tantly racist choice to con­tinue with this dis­paraging of my people. Stop being insen­sitive to Native people! Rude!! We are not mascots or brand names! We are human beings that have sur­vived genocide and you are making money off our racial his­torical trauma. Your next flavor should be Burnt Marsh­mallow Jew if you con­tinue with this theme. I apol­ogize to anyone I offened by that last remark. It is not that hard to apol­ogize for being insen­sitive. You know what was hard about writing this post? Posting it because I knew that remark could cause pain to someone and you are com­fortable enough to brand your company with such insults. That is deeply dis­turbing for children who grow up in your com­munity. Creepy.

      • Kim­berley Dem­binski

        YES. ALL OF THIS. These white people are not the ones offended by it and so cannot under­stand why it is a big deal. It’s a big deal because we don’t call black people col­oreds anymore, we don’t call Japanese people Japs, we don’t call His­panics spics or beaners. We changed these things so that we can truly be a country that is accepting of all nation­al­ities and treats them all with respect.
        I guaran-fucking-tee you I come up with a lemon ice cream called Jesus Pee and a whole lotta people would sud­denly under­stand why it’s a problem. Everyone deserves to be respected. ESPECIALLY when you’re talking about genocide that hap­pened to my ancestors on the very ground you’re built on.

  • Alexan­derYp­si­lantis

    If some­thing hurts a group of people then why do it? My goodness, change the name-that’s the decent thing to do. And the fair thing to do.

  • Penny Swan

    Seri­ously people. The name has absolutely NOTHING to do with American Indians. It is cin­namon flavor, and cin­namon comes from Sri Lanka, which is in the Indian Ocean, they flavor the ice cream with Rad Hots candy. Hence the name “Red Indian”. So now are you ALL going to get on the case of Red Skin potatoes and Germany chocolate cake. Biggby Coffee was named Beaners a long time ago and snowflakes made them incur a great cost and change the name. This is not the only ice cream place that has this ice cream.

    • Brave Crow

      ^this person has been keeping tabs on indigenous com­menters in stalkery creepy way. I have receipts.

    • Brave Crow

      Awkward that you seem more upset that racist busi­nesses you like lose money when called out as racist than you are about racism. Sounds like you still want to call it beaners because you have zero com­passion.

  • Ellsworth_Toohey

    Breana Noble, Mlive (Jackson Patriot) picked up your story. Con­grats!

    http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2018/03/red_indian_ice_cream_at_jonesv.html

    • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

      That’s AMAZING!!!!! Thanks for the heads up!!!!

  • Brave Crow

    Yeah most of the feedback is pos­itive because they are going out of their way to block and censor indigenous voices on their page. Anyone who says any­thing neg­ative about it is imme­di­ately blocked… It’s awkward when your racism is so deeply engrained that you can’t even acknowledge indigenous people.

    • Natasha Crall

      Udderside deleted their original post where my husband first ques­tioned the political cor­rectness of the name, and I first asserted that it is racist. They allowed hun­dreds of com­ments attacking us for our opinion. That cen­sorship in and of itself attempted to erase the issue, and actually did the opposite. I didn’t seek out media attention. It sought me.

      • Brave Crow

        Yeah I caught her openly on the udder side Facebook page basi­cally bragging about keeping tabs on people who dis­agree and bragging about being banned from groups for harassing people. Does she have stock in this company or what? Why does she care so much about ice cream?

        • Natasha Crall

          It goes far beyond caring about ice cream. She has done more than defended her view…she has made a valiant effort to silence others. She wrote some crazy email to WILX news begging them not to interview me and bragged that she “told them what a lunatic she is” in ref­erence to me. First of all, how is someone trying to sup­press the media over RACISM, not ice cream, ever going to handle this city council seat she lost? I was one of her strongest sup­porters and never foresaw this. Obvi­ously, WILX dis­missed her email. Second, if she is clinging to the premise “it’s just ice cream” then why is she so obsessive about what other people think about ice cream? For someone calling other people lunatics, her crusade cer­tainly is off the deep end. She is accusing me of starting a movement for which she has orga­nized a counter movement. I com­mented twice on Udderside and posted to Hot Debates. That isn’t starting a movement . It’s speaking out, and what I’m known for. Her counter movement is absurd and sounds deranged, trying to harass tele­vision sta­tions.

          • Brave Crow

            All good points. I sin­cerely hope she seeks out some therapy and sen­si­tivity training ASAP. I’m gen­uinely worried about her mental health and lack of control over it.

          • Natasha Crall

            I agree. She actually accused me of having nar­cis­sistic per­son­ality dis­order some­where in her online frenzy. I have PTSD. I think my ther­apist would have long ago caught and diag­nosed the lifelong, untreatable per­son­ality disorder…perhaps mental health advo­cates need to be aware of her lack of empathy against mar­gin­alized groups. I’m a nar­cissist because the media is giving this issue attention? THAT is a delu­sional frame of ref­erence. The media focus is not on me nor because of me . I just happen to have been 1 of 2 people to stand up first and question this.

          • Brave Crow

            Wow i didnt know she was a psy­chi­a­trist too!

          • Natasha Crall

            She is obvi­ously an expert on ice cream, deter­mining what should or should not offend other races, and now mental health. Good thing she attended the opiate crisis talk. We need her to put an end to heroin as well.

          • Brave Crow

            Ah yes. I like how nobody can decide what kind of “Indian” they mean. I’ve heard it’s for India bc cin­namon. Then the Indian ocean. So weird that when you Google “red indian” a whole page of indigenous north American people’s come up… and this article… although my fav comment so far has been “if it’s cin­namon why not call it red hot like it’s always been forever?”

          • Brave Crow

            Maybe they con­fused the Indian ocean and the Red Sea and came up with red indian…?

          • Natasha Crall

            White­s­plaining has it’s own, peculiar breed of ratio­nal­ization.

          • Jeffrey Hotchkiss

            Thank you from a Maine non-native who lives on the stolen lands of the Wabanaki Con­fed­eracy, and who studies what it means to decol­onize, taking guidance from the people of the Penobscot, Pas­samaquoddy, Micmac and Maliseet tribes.

            I think the people who are attacking you know exactly what they are doing — defending the ram­parts of geno­cidal colo­nialism, in the fear that they will oth­erwise have to revisit the moral under­pin­nings of the European claim to sole pos­session of these lands.

      • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

        I’m so sorry Natasha, its clear that you’re being blamed for what another group of activists are doing in planning protests and making civil rights com­plaints and con­tacting media outlets. It wasn’t the intent to have a bunch of bullies attack YOU for our work on this matter, very sorry that Zoning board member Penny Swan is com­mitting these hate crimes against you based on your race. I hope you press charges for her cyber­bul­lying of you. Here’s the law, since we have the lob­byist pros­e­cuting attorney that ever existed, he’ll need remedial expla­na­tions, if you ever do make a com­plaint (which I pray you will, it’s dis­gusting what’s gong on here) spell it out for ol’ Neal by including a printout of the statute, he’ll need it, hasn’t actually prac­ticed law in MANY years.
        http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750 – 411s

        • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

          The Zoning Board of Appeals member, appointed by the mayor who meets n city offices doing city business on the city record which city employees keep which is ALL paid for by tax­payers? She is entitled to her opinion, but not entitled to start hate pages about private cit­izens to punish them for their opinion and incite others to commit crimes against you on her behalf. Michigan Supreme Court Chief Justice Stephen Markman covers that in his course for Hillsdale College, https://online.hillsdale.edu/courses/supreme-court/lecture-5 You can give that to Brady too, if you want, LOL!
          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6f4f112943779e3bb9aa22b9d3526e11f1dfc753a2d42b6d4f50e6eb64c57fd8.png

          • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

            Here, give him this law too. It’s Ms. Swan’s job description.which DISPUTES the city attorney’s con­stant claims that appointees aren’t subject to any laws since they’re “not employees” of the city. He’s stupid too, if he even IS the city’s lawyer. Marcoux Allen claims they have no affil­i­ation with the city any more, and he was “of counsel” under their con­tract and without a fair-big process for that OFFICE (city attorney = official office, city pros­e­cutor, etc) then one may wonder why Lovinger shows up at city council meetings pre­tending to BE the city attorney when the public (as far as I’ve seen on any council meeting video) wasn’t apprised of any new con­tract after Marcoux Allen can­celed their con­tract with the city. Sigh, too much cor­ruption to even keep track of, isn’t it? But if the city HAS a city attorney, you can ask him for a legal opinion about the “office” your cyber­stalker has, as she cyber­bullies you and rallies even teenagers to come after you on her behalf to stop your right of free speech when you see civil rights vio­la­tions in public accom­mo­da­tions.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b1cd52425b67d6977dc869a6d8c46c6f79ef8a4040921043012ff3f812cca073.png too.

          • Living­In­Hells­dale­County
  • Alexan­derYp­si­lantis

    Everyone deserves to be treated with respect, but the First Amer­icans should hold a special place in the national heart. They were not treated fairly, not by a long shot. They came here first, the rest of us are immi­grants who reside in America only because of their accep­tance-and it wasn’t rewarded with equal atten­tions.

    It’d be great if each of us in our own small way acknowl­edged that. I’m for­mally asking Julia and Dave Bauer to do the decent and correct thing and change the name of this ice cream. Nobody is accusing you of being evil people, it was probably just an innocent over­sight. But you can spin it into a win-win by changing to a new name and acknowl­edging the special place in our hearts for Native Amer­icans. After all, they were the first set­tlers in this great nation, that should mean some­thing to all of us.

    • Brave Crow

      Yes and erasing us indigenous people and blocking us and our opinions from the Facebook page only fur­thers the erasure of indigenous people. Why is it so hard to change the name of an ice cream that over­whelm­ingly upsets an entire culture of people. To me it just says “our business doesn’t care about the feelings of our minority cus­tomers”.

      • Annette Reiniche Barnett

        Brave Crow, so you are an American Indian? Is Brave Crow your real name? Why are you afraid to post on here with your real name? You don’t seem so “brave” to me!

        • Natasha Crall

          Easy there, She Who Fights From Key­board…

          • Brave Crow

            She clearly just pissy when she can’t find a person’s “real name” to add to Penny Swine’s hit list.

          • Natasha Crall

            It is hon­estly best that I am their primary target. Clearly, I am not going to be intim­i­dated nor cave to racist peer pressure. Their group had 50 some odd people but I heard she went bal­listic that the high school stu­dents sent out screen shots, so she started deleting people. For someone who decries the lack of trans­parency in our city gov­ernment, she cer­tainly hides behind some pretty tight closet doors.

          • Brave Crow

            Yes. Thank you for taking the brunt of it so that brown people don’t have to. I think think she targets white people on brown issues so she doesn’t seem as racist as if she were to attack an Indigenous person. It’s easier to attack white allies of brown issues I guess.

          • Natasha Crall

            It’s simply the right thing for me to do. Her excuse of “I know people with Indian her­itage who are not offended” is laughable. So what? I have doc­u­mented Cherokee ancestry. Who knows what those people actually know about their her­itage. So and so’s mammy saying her grand­pappy was half Choctaw doesn’t make them an authority. It takes 5 minutes of research to see that Red Indian is con­sidered a pejo­rative term to indigenous peoples.

          • Brave Crow

            Yes. Having “her­itage” or “blood” or “ancestry” is very dif­ferent than par­tic­i­pating in a living culture.

            I heard about this story through my friend Linda Black Elk who is a big leader and ethob­otanist on Standing Rock. She shared it. All of the living people of Standing Rock think it’s gross.

            And yes. When you good “red indian” the entire first page is about indigenous north Amer­icans and this article. Not one thing about “india” or the “Indian ocean”.

          • Natasha Crall

            Exactly. My blood was boiling over this…and just think how ACTUAL members of Tribal Nations must feel…but people like Penny trust Suzie 1/64 blood to be the authority.

            I am honored that this story has been shared where it matters. That makes all of the harassment absolutely worth it to me. I have other reporter calls to return today too. But that’s not because it matters outside of the Hillsdale bubble, that MUST be because I’M just SUCH a nar­cissist, according to She Who Squawks Loudly Swan..

          • Brave Crow

            Thank you for using your “nar­cissism” to stand up for us. Nar­cis­sists are well known for helping others even to their own detriment.… Lol.

            But seri­ously. Thank you. As a Lakota person enrolled on Standing Rock I say Wopila Tanka, big thanks. You are a worthy ally of indigenous people and are surely making your ancestors very proud.

            In the Lakota oyate we have 7 sacred values and you display many of them courage, humility and self­lessness espe­cially.

          • Natasha Crall

            You are welcome, Black Crow. Thank you for your kind words and encour­agement. To know my voice was heard and appre­ciated means the world to me. Your people are the reason I spoke out. Other Nations are the reason I spoke out. Teaching our children to stand up for what’s right is why I spoke out. That is who I was raised to be. It is the only way that I know. The Pennys of the world can mock me for years to come, but what I will remember are all of the mes­sages and state­ments like yours.

          • Brave Crow

            I will burn sage and cedar for you and and ask that wanka tanka guide you and keep you safe in this battle.

          • Natasha Crall

            THANK YOU.

          • Annette Reiniche Barnett

            You called him BLACK Crow!! Aha­ha­ha­hahah. How dare you!!

          • Natasha Crall

            You are still trolling this, She Who Fights From Key­board? Thank you for pointing out my auto­correct. It assumes those words go together. I missed it. You get the gold star for proof­reading AND for still trolling after the rest are finding other things to do.

          • Brave Crow

            Also good on those high school stu­dents for being like… whoa… This is kind of messed up… I’m gonna tell someone.

          • Ellsworth_Toohey

            And you would have bet right. She is a member of the secret FB group.

          • Annette Reiniche Barnett

            Hey you two are deeply dis­turbed. Keep it up though, you are proving my point with your paranoid rantings.

          • Brave Crow

            Lol. Fighting racism is so deranged. Racist.

          • Ellsworth_Toohey

            Your “point” seems to be they aren’t posting with their real names? You do under­stand an actual secret FB group was set up ded­i­cated to attacking Ms. Crall and those who share her views? If there is “paranoia” as you claim, it seems jus­tified.

        • Brave Crow

          Yeah Brave Crow is my real name or Kangi Ohitika in Lakota. The first Kangi Ohitika counted coup against Custer at Little Big Horn. Thanks for being racist in only valuing non-indigenous names. Good look.

        • Brave Crow

          I am indigenous to turtle island not “American indian” because this is not India or “america”

        • Brave Crow

          Is Annette your real name?

          • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

            Be careful. She is a VERY close friend of City official Penny Swan, and instead of Penny coming here inves­ti­gating people herself, she’s trying to get her thug friends to get her a hit list going of new people to stalk and humiliate into shutting up and not using their first amendment rights in PENNY SWAN’S county. Be super careful though, they may show up at your door with torches and try to hang you in the village square or burn you at the stake, it seems “witch hunts” are done against anyone who DARES speak an opinion here! Unless it’s the gov­ernment official’s opinion, of course.

  • Ellsworth_Toohey

    Brena Noble… your advisor owes you a gold star. Col­legian now is getting links from national pub­li­ca­tions.

    https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/kzxwvm/red-indian-ice-cream-racist-native-american

  • BradinAZ

    Ugh, townies.

    • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

      Don’t blame US for your choice of schools, LOL! We didn’t ask you to come here, go some­where with a town more suited to your lofty self imagery! Like we care! The college sucks up so much local resources that we’d be better off if they’d take their tax evasion show on the road.

  • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

    I want you guys to take a good look at the screenshot sent to me by a Jonesville High School student. Three other stu­dents were on this post being rallied to “get” Natasha Crall for her daring to say “Red Indian” ice cream’s name offended her. Penny Swan, a can­didate for City Council of Hillsdale, and a Zoning Board of Appeals office holder sent those high schoolers out, ral­lying them to bully Natasha Crall on a page that Natasha Crall didn’t even KNOW about, and had no part of. I just wanted you guys to read this, since it made me sick, and Penny Swan, a city of Hillsdale appointee, really should be in jail because cyber­bul­lying is criminal, she’s a public figure/politician, and should have set a much better example for kids, let alone for this com­munity in general than to open a hate page against a private citizen to punish them for their opinion instead of debating the issue of the ice cream’s name. But hey, that’s MY opinion.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f4a74fa6df5c8a3e266ba70d152484861d19683cfc73f7976d2661ff589f7803.png

    • Annette Reiniche Barnett

      Why don’t you use your real name? Its easy to act all brave under cover!

      • Natasha Crall

        Perhaps with a squadron of aggressive people harassing others who are taking a stand, some people are afraid to .

        • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

          I’m so sorry Natasha,it’s all very sad what has been said about you for having an opinion. Being pun­ished for your beliefs, by gov­ernment offi­cials, shows what a “third world country” that Hillsdale County really is. It’s a shame.

      • Brave Crow

        Lol nice try racist but Brave Crow is my real name directly from Standing Rock where the first Kangi Ohitika counted coup on Custer at Little Big Horn aka Battle of the Greasy Grass. You want my cer­tificate of blood quantum too, wasicu?

      • Brave Crow

        Are you and that you can’t find me and harass me or what?

      • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

        Who do you think you are to even ASK? Invading people’s privacy over their opinion about a city official breaking the law? The GOVERNMENT can’t demand your identity for your opinion, but you think that I’d give you the right to stalk and threaten me and my family like Swan’s crew of thugs has done to Natasha is ok? Lady, you have GOT to be kidding me! There’s no law that CAN be made in the United States of America that gives you any right to know who others are just because they expose how a public official is breaking the law!
        https://www.facebook.com/157829011701435/photos/p.163814671102869/163814671102869/?type=3&theater

        • Annette Reiniche Barnett

          You are a coward. Plain and simple
          Everyone knows who you are anyway

          • Living­In­Hells­dale­County

            I hear alternate speech here that attacks the subject, and debates it, there’s only a few animals that run around trying to shut others up. It’s an opinion ma’am. Get over yourself. You’re an ADMITTED stalker Ms. Barnett, what, has your buddy Penny started a hate group against ME now? And she calls herself a Christian, is nothing but a neg­ative, attack driven evil person, that’s the most dis­ap­pointing part of all. I may not even AGREE with Natasha Cralls words, nor anyone’s, but unlike you, I’m an American who believes in her right to say any­thing she wants as her opinion that abides by the law.The fact you even WANT to know who I am dis­gusts me, I would never asso­ciate with someone who is nothing but a bully, trying to force others to shut up about what they think by STALKING them.

  • Brave Crow

    What are the pro­ce­dures for removing someone from the zoning board because it seems like Peggy “Swine” is a dan­gerous person who uses children to harass people. Beyond the grossness of this ice cream I’m deeply dis­turbed that someone who rep­re­sents the local govt is out here harassing peoplen openly and basi­cally bragging about it without recourse for no apparent reason other than to per­sonally attack those she deems as “snowflakes”.

  • Elise Veronique Amla

    “To know the history of where ‘Red Skins’ (money was awarded for European/Settlers that brought in strips of skins of children, men, women, Elders- the bar­barism of Settler History and Col­o­nization) orig­i­nates there is no mistake that such a term is a racial slur and steeped in his­torical hatred. The ignorant Col­o­nization of a mass group of people where each tribe has dis­tinctive lan­guage, culture, tra­di­tions, cer­e­monies insult­ingly stripped away in one dehu­man­izing term is indeed offensive to the First Sov­er­eigns of Turtle Island. Your choice to per­petuate that hate and dehu­man­ization is telling of your immorality and racist stance. How dis­ap­pointing. Also to use con­tro­versy for mar­keting your product is just plain lazy and vile. You should be ashamed.”

  • Brave Crow

    Wow udder side got all their non 5 star reviews removed from their page. Yikes. Trying to erase their racism by cen­soring reviews. Be sure if you review their fb page to make sure you say you’ve been there and you tasted the ice cream and it tastes like racism

  • Brave Crow

    Since they are cen­soring their Facebook instead of facing their racism you can review them on yelp here. https://m.yelp.com/biz/the-udder-side-jonesville

  • Mike Ford

    Prior to the 1830’s Anishnabek people inhabited most of Michigan with Wyan­dotte people near Detroit. Wea, Sac and Fox and Kickapoo people had ties to Michigan.

    Indian is a mis­nomer attibuted to Christopher Columbus who encoun­tered Arawak, Carib, and Taino people in Cuba thinking he’d reached India. Funny how the standard of igno­rance is main­tained.

    Anishnabek means the people. The people being Bodawadomi, Ojibwe, and Adawe. Some Anishnabek people were forced to Kansas in the 1830’s from Michigan. Ten or more Anishnabek com­mu­nities remain in Michigan of Bodawadomi, Ojibwe, and Adawe people. Red is a color not a people. Indian is a mis­nomer. Anishnabek is correct. I hope cow­ardly cen­sorship doesn’t exist here.

  • Please, fellow non-Natives, may we all take a deep breath and listen to the voices of Native people and try to learn some­thing! The impact of our choices matters, no matter how innocent our inten­tions. History is not dead and gone, and we have a ter­rible legacy to grapple with. May we move forward with humility and respect.

    • Alexan­derYp­si­lantis

      Well said.

  • Daniel Kunkel

    The problem with The Udder Side’s Red Indian ice cream flavor isn’t the name, it’s the fact that it tastes absolutely awful. I do highly rec­ommend the red rasp­berry shakes though.